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WORLD CUP CHAMPION
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It wasn't a joke. He was bona fide top 3 in that tournament. He just wasn't out of this world like he had been for Barca prior to the tournament.

So, the level at which fans judged him was much higher.
He was definitely quiet in the knockout games though and the main reason they got to the final at that point was the team actually coming together defensively for once. He didn't play bad or anything but there was a bit of a drop off.

He did drag them through the group's when he was the only one of the team with a pulse though.
 
Portugal winning the Euros "inspite of" Ronaldo is not unreasonable? Give me a break.
That's definitely unreasonable. If it weren't for his two goals against Hungary they'd have been out. He was pretty underwhelming for most of the tournament, but without his goals they'd have gone out in the group stages.
 
He was definitely quiet in the knockout games though and the main reason they got to the final at that point was the team actually coming together defensively for once. He didn't play bad or anything but there was a bit of a drop off.

He did drag them through the group's when he was the only one of the team with a pulse though.
He was quiet, but his passing and link up play was still out of this world, its just he had Higuain to play with.

He kept having to drop deep cos the Argie midfield were fucking woeful.
 
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It was also not some big test to go to Juve. He went to a team that had just won 6 or 7 consecutive titles. :lol:

He has scored goals obviously, but he's yet to be the league's top scorer and in his first season it was a 36-year-old Quagliarella playing for Sampdoria, so it's not like the league is the defensive art it was in the 80's and 90's.

Last season he got 31, but 12 were penalties. You have to score them, but 19 goals from open play is very good, it's not wow. The greatest header of the ball ever and one of the greatest goal scorers ever, but that doesn't automatically put you top 5 ATG status. Nobody puts Muller in their top 5 for his stupidly good goal scoring record.

He's top 5 for me, but only just and it wouldn't be outrageous to not have him in it.

But I'm basing that with far less focus on longevity, if that's included then he's top 3.
He is an old man himself now to be fair and his legs are going a bit, I think part of the decision to move to Juve was based on it not being long before he started to look a lot more human in La Liga. It looks good playing England Spain and Italy and win a lot of trophies in all three but the harder assignment would of been to stay at Real. Juventus as you say was always pretty much guaranteed domestic success at the very least. If he wins them the Champions League that’ll be impressive but I think that’s beyond him now.
 
It wasn't a joke. He was bona fide top 3 in that tournament. He just wasn't out of this world like he had been for Barca prior to the tournament.

So, the level at which fans judged him was much higher.
Joke was a bit harsh, but I remember thinking, if it were gonna be an Argie, then Mascherano deserved it.
 
That's definitely unreasonable. If it weren't for his two goals against Hungary they'd have been out. He was pretty underwhelming for most of the tournament, but without his goals they'd have gone out in the group stages.
Yeah, but. He wasn't there in the final. They still won.

Its 100% accurate to say they won in spite of him not being there.

Again, to reiterate. I don't know who had the best international career and I don't care. But, what I will say is there are plenty of arguments to support or detract away from either player on this issue, and to say that Ronaldo definitely had the best international career and make a point of that, is deepthroating of the highest order.
 
Yeah, but. He wasn't there in the final. They still won.

Its 100% accurate to say they won in spite of him not being there.

Again, to reiterate. I don't know who had the best international career and I don't care. But, what I will say is there are plenty of arguments to support or detract away from either player on this issue, and to say that Ronaldo definitely had the best international career and make a point of that, is deepthroating of the highest order.
Nah, in spite of is used to say that they won despite being held back by someone being poor.

If Liverpool had come back to beat Real in the 2018 CL final, you'd say Liverpool won in spite of Karius.

Portugal won the final regardless of Ronaldo.
 
Nah, in spite of is used to say that they won despite being held back by someone being poor.

If Liverpool had come back to beat Real in the 2018 CL final, you'd say Liverpool won in spite of Karius.

Portugal won the final regardless of Ronaldo.
That is semantics of the highest order.

Bottom line, the euros win is the one thing that is elevating Ronaldo above Messi in this debate for some. He didn't play the final and had a sub par tournament.

To make the argument that he has definitely had a better international career cant be hinged on that tournament from an individual performance perspective.
 
That is semantics of the highest order.
It's really not mate, it's literally what the phrase means, which is exactly why some posters reacted to the statement in the way they did. It's used as a contrast...

The man was very fit in spite of eating junk food every day.

If you'd said:

"Portugal won in spite of Ronaldo missing the final through injury"

There would have been no issue, as that explains that despite losing their top player, they won. It reads as a surprising situation that compliments Portugal.

When you say, "Portugal won in spite of Ronaldo", it reads as they won despite being hampered by a poor player/performance.

For example:

Liverpool won the 2005 CL in spite of having Djimi Traore in defence.

Liverpool beat Barcelona 4-0 in spite of being without Salah and Firmino.
 
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Hold up.

I'm not saying one has had a definitively better international career than the other. I'm saying its open for interpretation and debate. Others are shutting it down and saying Ronaldo definitely had the best intl career, and I'm saying its debateable. That's all.
If he finishes as the highest scoring player in international football history, which he more than likely will, I’d say there is very little debate.

I know this has all got a bit goal centric but that is still a massive individual achievement.
 
It's really not mate, it's literally what the phrase means, which is exactly why some posters reacted to the statement in the way they did. It's used as a contrast...

The man was very fit in spite of eating junk food every day.

If you'd said:

"Portugal won in spite of Ronaldo missing the final through injury"

There would have been no issue, as that explains that despite losing their top player, they won. It reads as a surprising situation that compliments Portugal.

When you say, "Portugal won in spite of Ronaldo", it reads as they won despite being hampered by a poor player/performance.

For example:

Liverpool won the 2005 CL in spite of having Djimi Traore in defence.

Liverpool beat Barcelona 4-0 in spite of being without Salah and Firmino.
In some games they definitely rescued a point in spite of him standing around doing nothing to be fair.
 
I think that front 3 of Spurs is potentially as good as any front 3 in the Premiership. It’s a shame that Spurs are Spurs, if anyone else had that attack they’d be pushing for the title.
 
I don’t think there’s any doubt that Ronaldo’s had a better international career than Messi, is there? Just as there’s no debating that Messi’s a better footballer than Ronaldo.
 
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